Immortality or Resurrection (Updated) by William West (ereader with dictionary .txt) π
Excerpt from the book:
What is a man? Is a person born with an immortal soul, or do the saved put on immortality at the resurrection? Is a person a three part being, an animal body with both a soul and a spirit that will live without the body? This is one of the most important questions of all time. It has more influence on our conception of our nature, our view of life in this world and life after death than any other question.
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If cities will be judged at the judgment day at the coming of Christ, then God
would be condemning people for where they live, not for what they did or did not do
themselves. BUT, EITHER WAY (1) If this is God's judgment day on their cities when
they were destroyed (2) or even if God did judge cities in the judgment day at the coming
of Christ, there is nothing said about an immortal soul or about God tormenting anyone in
Hell. Hell is read into it. If the judgment is "in the Day of Judgment," it could not be in
Hell after the Day of Judgment is over.
ANOTHER PASSAGE THAT IS SOMETIMES USED TO TEACH THERE BE
DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. When will the many or few stripes be? The
master "will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour he does not
know, and will cut him in pieces" [Luke 12:46]. THIS WILL BE WHEN THE MASTER
COMES, whether this is speaking of His coming in judgment on Israel or His coming in
judgment on the world. Nothing is said about the stripes being in Hell, but Hell is read
into it. If the stripes will be given forever, the few would last as long as the many,
therefore, they would be the same. A few would not be a few if they were given forever;
both would be a countless and forever growing number of stripes. There would be no
325
difference in the few and the many for both would last forever and have no end. Many
and few are not specific as to how many, but both are a limited number of stripes,
therefore could not last forever. Neither Hell nor forever are in this passage but both are
read into it.
Anyone must reject many plain statements of the Bible to believe man has an
immortal soul that will forever be tormented in Hell. The Bible does not support
today's Hell fire preaching. It flatly opposes it.
THE NOTHING CAN BE DESTROYED ARGUMENT
In his reply to my article "From Where Came Hell" Csonka says, "They [bottles, gold,
and sheep...spirits] would be in a state of detriment and not annihilation" [Truth
Magazine, 1995, Page 17]. He makes broken bottles, and our spirits after death have the
same "state." Will the bottles be "annihilation" after the earth is destroyed, or will they
still be in the same "state" as our spirit? Does he think earthly bottles will be in Heaven?
All the elements [atoms] in a tree come from the soil, and were created when God made
the earth; and when a tree is burnt, the elements go back to the earth. They existed before
the tree did, and will exist after the tree unto the end of the earth [Peter 3:12]. Does he
think that a tree was a tree before the seed came up? But worst of all, does he think the all
wise and all knowing God could not have used symbols that taught what He wanted to
teach? He is saying matter cannot be destroyed, not even when it is burnt up, it just
changes back to the base elements from which the bottle was made, therefore, the soul
can never be destroyed. WHAT BASE ELEMENTS DOES HE THINK THE SOUL [the
"immaterial, invisible part of man"] IS MADE OF THAT IT WILL GO BACK TO AT
THE DEATH OF THE BODY? WHEN SOMETHING BURNS UP, ARE THE ASHES
THAT REMAIN CONSCIOUS AND IN TORMENT? When a bottle changes back to the
base elements, it is no longer a bottle; what does he think the soul is if it has changed
from a soul back to its base elements, and what does he think are the base elements of a
soul that he believes has no substance? Is he saying only the materials of which souls are
made are in existence? A bottle has substance, but according to today's theology the soul
has no substance. He is making a comparison of something he says has no substance with
the substance of a bottle that was destroyed. Is he saying only the base element of a soul
that has no base element, no substance, is in Abraham's bosom? He has made death be
nothing but "a loss of well-being," or "a loss of all the quality of life." Therefore, life can
be nothing but "well-being." The elements of tree and the elements that a person are
made of existed before the tree or the person and will exist after their death, but they were
not a person before his or her birth and are not after his or her death. The elements that
make up my body existed from the time God made the earth, but I did not exist before my
birth. If a dead body is burned, the smoke and ashes remain but are they still the person?
The base elements of all things were made out of nothing and will go back to nothing at
the end of the world, therefore, his argument, that nothing can be destroyed is not true for
all things will be destroyed. When anyone tries to prove an error, they have to fall back
on human wisdom and misusing or changing God's word. With all love and respect, this
is one of the most far out arguments I have ever heard. He must have needed something
very badly with which to prove his teaching. THE IMPACT OF THE TEACHINGS OF
CHRIST IN THESE PARABLES IS SO STRONG THAT SOME WOULD MAKE THE
WORDS OF CHRIST BE SAYING NOTHING JUST TO GET AWAY FROM IT. If a
326
tree cannot be destroyed, then Christ the master teacher is saying nothing. They make
Christ to be just a "vain babbler," speaking things that cannot be; for if they do not, then
their Hell could not be.
The same science that tells us nothing can be destroyed also tells us that nothing can
be created out of nothing. This science does not realize that the God that made all things
out of nothing can send that which He made out of nothing, back to nothing. THOSE
WHO USE THE NOTHING CAN BE DESTROYED ARGUMENT TO PROVE A
PERSON HAS A PART THAT CANNOT BE DESTROYED MAY GIVE GOD THE
POWER TO CREATE OUT OF NOTHING BUT DENIES HIM THE POWER TO
DESTROY WHAT HE HAS CREATED OUT OF NOTHING. If all the elements that
were in a person's body existing after his death proves that he is still alive somewhere, it
would also prove he was alive somewhere before his birth for all the elements in his body
also existed before his birth. The elements are not a body after it's death any more than
they were a body before birth. BUT, WHY ARE THEY USING ELEMENTS OF
THIS EARTH TO PROVE SOMETHING ABOUT SOULS THAT THEY SAY
ARE NOT MADE OF ELEMENTS OF THIS EARTH? This is like a drowning man
reaching for a straw.
Csonka said, "five of these passages are parables that do not describe what will literally happen; but,
explain in the closest terms the things that will take place in the spiritual parallel." Csonka, " Truth
Magazine, 1995, Page 16. Unless a tree is tormented, there is no close parallel to the teaching
of eternal torment.
β’ If trees that are burnt up by the farmer are DESTROYED;
β’ And the lost that are burnt up by the Lake of Fire are DESTROYED; there is a
parallel. It is the end of both.
β’ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
β’ If trees that are burnt up by the farmer are DESTROYED;
β’ And the lost that are burnt up by the Lake of Fire are TORMENTED; If one [a
tree] is destroyed, and the other one [a lost man] is tormented, there is no parallel.
It is the end of one but not the other.
Summary: When we burn up something, are the ashes in conscious torment? Skins,
bottles that perish [Matthew 9:17], moths destroyed cloth [Luke 12:33], foods that
perished [John 6:27] are not in conscious torment after they are destroyed or perished, yet
traditionalists use these to prove conscious torment after death because these materials
are not annihilated. By using the same logic, the bodies of beasts are not annihilated after
their death for all the elements of their bodies still exist, therefore, they are now just as
conscious as people are for none of the elements of their bodies has not been destroyed,
they still exist.
We are told, "that which thinks and remembers cannot be matter, therefore, a person
must have a soul, which is composed of some other substance." Animals can think and
remember, some of them can think and remember very good, therefore, animals "must
have a soul, which is composed of some other substance."
THE JUSTICE OF GOD
The argument of some is that God would not be a just God if He did not punish the
sinner. They then jump from justice demands punishment to Hell being the only way God
can punish the sinner; most of the time without any kind of an attempt to prove there is a
327
Hell. They are so indoctrinated that they assume the only kind of punishment there could
be is their Hell, and are blind to what God does say. The question is how do they know
the punishment will be in Hell when there is not one word about it in the Bible? There is
much on the punishment being death, but nothing on it being Hell. Death is the worst
kind of punishment, but some cannot see it as a punishment because they are so blinded
by their Hell theology.
It is almost beyond belief that not one time in any of the major translations of the
Bible, made by men who believed in eternal torment, is any of these words ever
translated torment. NOT ONE TIME IS IT SAID THAT GOD OR SATAN WILL
TORMENT ANYONE FOREVER; BUT IT IS SAID REPEATEDLY, USING
MANY DIFFERENT GREEK WORDS, THAT GOD WILL DESTROY THOSE
WHO ARE NOT HIS CHILDREN.
CHAPTER EIGHT
First Resurrection And Second Death
An Immortal Soul or Resurrection of the Dead
The interpretation of figurative language, metaphors and symbolic passages
1. ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION, her weeping, gnashing of teeth, outer darkness,
Matthew 24
β’ Preterits Eschatology - Realized Eschatology - The A. D. 70 Doctrine
β’ The day of the Lord
β’ 2 Peter 3
2. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS The intermediate bosom
3. THE SYMBOLICAL PICTURES OF REVELATION VERSUS A LITERAL
INTERPRETATION
β’ Souls under the altar
β’ The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever
β’ The Lake of Fire
4. FOREVER AND EVER of the King James Version
5. ETERNAL
Those who believe in the Pagan doctrine of an immortal soul from birth and Hell have
no plain statements. That they must reinterpret figurative language, metaphors and
symbolic passages into literal statements SHOWS THE WEAKNESS OF THEIR
BELIEF, that it is from man and not from God. Parables and figurative language are
made to be superior over plain statements. The clear language must be made to agree
with what is thought to be said in the symbolic language, therefore, MANY LITERAL
PASSAGES MUST BE MADE FIGURATIVE TO KEEP THEM FROM BEING IN
CONFLICT. Many of the metaphors about the destruction of Israel have been discussed
in the first seven chapters. This chapter is a close look at some of the other symbolic
passages that must be made into literal statements.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
PART ONE
SCRIPTURES ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL
328
THAT ARE MISAPPLIED TO HELL
Israel's destruction, her
would be condemning people for where they live, not for what they did or did not do
themselves. BUT, EITHER WAY (1) If this is God's judgment day on their cities when
they were destroyed (2) or even if God did judge cities in the judgment day at the coming
of Christ, there is nothing said about an immortal soul or about God tormenting anyone in
Hell. Hell is read into it. If the judgment is "in the Day of Judgment," it could not be in
Hell after the Day of Judgment is over.
ANOTHER PASSAGE THAT IS SOMETIMES USED TO TEACH THERE BE
DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. When will the many or few stripes be? The
master "will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour he does not
know, and will cut him in pieces" [Luke 12:46]. THIS WILL BE WHEN THE MASTER
COMES, whether this is speaking of His coming in judgment on Israel or His coming in
judgment on the world. Nothing is said about the stripes being in Hell, but Hell is read
into it. If the stripes will be given forever, the few would last as long as the many,
therefore, they would be the same. A few would not be a few if they were given forever;
both would be a countless and forever growing number of stripes. There would be no
325
difference in the few and the many for both would last forever and have no end. Many
and few are not specific as to how many, but both are a limited number of stripes,
therefore could not last forever. Neither Hell nor forever are in this passage but both are
read into it.
Anyone must reject many plain statements of the Bible to believe man has an
immortal soul that will forever be tormented in Hell. The Bible does not support
today's Hell fire preaching. It flatly opposes it.
THE NOTHING CAN BE DESTROYED ARGUMENT
In his reply to my article "From Where Came Hell" Csonka says, "They [bottles, gold,
and sheep...spirits] would be in a state of detriment and not annihilation" [Truth
Magazine, 1995, Page 17]. He makes broken bottles, and our spirits after death have the
same "state." Will the bottles be "annihilation" after the earth is destroyed, or will they
still be in the same "state" as our spirit? Does he think earthly bottles will be in Heaven?
All the elements [atoms] in a tree come from the soil, and were created when God made
the earth; and when a tree is burnt, the elements go back to the earth. They existed before
the tree did, and will exist after the tree unto the end of the earth [Peter 3:12]. Does he
think that a tree was a tree before the seed came up? But worst of all, does he think the all
wise and all knowing God could not have used symbols that taught what He wanted to
teach? He is saying matter cannot be destroyed, not even when it is burnt up, it just
changes back to the base elements from which the bottle was made, therefore, the soul
can never be destroyed. WHAT BASE ELEMENTS DOES HE THINK THE SOUL [the
"immaterial, invisible part of man"] IS MADE OF THAT IT WILL GO BACK TO AT
THE DEATH OF THE BODY? WHEN SOMETHING BURNS UP, ARE THE ASHES
THAT REMAIN CONSCIOUS AND IN TORMENT? When a bottle changes back to the
base elements, it is no longer a bottle; what does he think the soul is if it has changed
from a soul back to its base elements, and what does he think are the base elements of a
soul that he believes has no substance? Is he saying only the materials of which souls are
made are in existence? A bottle has substance, but according to today's theology the soul
has no substance. He is making a comparison of something he says has no substance with
the substance of a bottle that was destroyed. Is he saying only the base element of a soul
that has no base element, no substance, is in Abraham's bosom? He has made death be
nothing but "a loss of well-being," or "a loss of all the quality of life." Therefore, life can
be nothing but "well-being." The elements of tree and the elements that a person are
made of existed before the tree or the person and will exist after their death, but they were
not a person before his or her birth and are not after his or her death. The elements that
make up my body existed from the time God made the earth, but I did not exist before my
birth. If a dead body is burned, the smoke and ashes remain but are they still the person?
The base elements of all things were made out of nothing and will go back to nothing at
the end of the world, therefore, his argument, that nothing can be destroyed is not true for
all things will be destroyed. When anyone tries to prove an error, they have to fall back
on human wisdom and misusing or changing God's word. With all love and respect, this
is one of the most far out arguments I have ever heard. He must have needed something
very badly with which to prove his teaching. THE IMPACT OF THE TEACHINGS OF
CHRIST IN THESE PARABLES IS SO STRONG THAT SOME WOULD MAKE THE
WORDS OF CHRIST BE SAYING NOTHING JUST TO GET AWAY FROM IT. If a
326
tree cannot be destroyed, then Christ the master teacher is saying nothing. They make
Christ to be just a "vain babbler," speaking things that cannot be; for if they do not, then
their Hell could not be.
The same science that tells us nothing can be destroyed also tells us that nothing can
be created out of nothing. This science does not realize that the God that made all things
out of nothing can send that which He made out of nothing, back to nothing. THOSE
WHO USE THE NOTHING CAN BE DESTROYED ARGUMENT TO PROVE A
PERSON HAS A PART THAT CANNOT BE DESTROYED MAY GIVE GOD THE
POWER TO CREATE OUT OF NOTHING BUT DENIES HIM THE POWER TO
DESTROY WHAT HE HAS CREATED OUT OF NOTHING. If all the elements that
were in a person's body existing after his death proves that he is still alive somewhere, it
would also prove he was alive somewhere before his birth for all the elements in his body
also existed before his birth. The elements are not a body after it's death any more than
they were a body before birth. BUT, WHY ARE THEY USING ELEMENTS OF
THIS EARTH TO PROVE SOMETHING ABOUT SOULS THAT THEY SAY
ARE NOT MADE OF ELEMENTS OF THIS EARTH? This is like a drowning man
reaching for a straw.
Csonka said, "five of these passages are parables that do not describe what will literally happen; but,
explain in the closest terms the things that will take place in the spiritual parallel." Csonka, " Truth
Magazine, 1995, Page 16. Unless a tree is tormented, there is no close parallel to the teaching
of eternal torment.
β’ If trees that are burnt up by the farmer are DESTROYED;
β’ And the lost that are burnt up by the Lake of Fire are DESTROYED; there is a
parallel. It is the end of both.
β’ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
β’ If trees that are burnt up by the farmer are DESTROYED;
β’ And the lost that are burnt up by the Lake of Fire are TORMENTED; If one [a
tree] is destroyed, and the other one [a lost man] is tormented, there is no parallel.
It is the end of one but not the other.
Summary: When we burn up something, are the ashes in conscious torment? Skins,
bottles that perish [Matthew 9:17], moths destroyed cloth [Luke 12:33], foods that
perished [John 6:27] are not in conscious torment after they are destroyed or perished, yet
traditionalists use these to prove conscious torment after death because these materials
are not annihilated. By using the same logic, the bodies of beasts are not annihilated after
their death for all the elements of their bodies still exist, therefore, they are now just as
conscious as people are for none of the elements of their bodies has not been destroyed,
they still exist.
We are told, "that which thinks and remembers cannot be matter, therefore, a person
must have a soul, which is composed of some other substance." Animals can think and
remember, some of them can think and remember very good, therefore, animals "must
have a soul, which is composed of some other substance."
THE JUSTICE OF GOD
The argument of some is that God would not be a just God if He did not punish the
sinner. They then jump from justice demands punishment to Hell being the only way God
can punish the sinner; most of the time without any kind of an attempt to prove there is a
327
Hell. They are so indoctrinated that they assume the only kind of punishment there could
be is their Hell, and are blind to what God does say. The question is how do they know
the punishment will be in Hell when there is not one word about it in the Bible? There is
much on the punishment being death, but nothing on it being Hell. Death is the worst
kind of punishment, but some cannot see it as a punishment because they are so blinded
by their Hell theology.
It is almost beyond belief that not one time in any of the major translations of the
Bible, made by men who believed in eternal torment, is any of these words ever
translated torment. NOT ONE TIME IS IT SAID THAT GOD OR SATAN WILL
TORMENT ANYONE FOREVER; BUT IT IS SAID REPEATEDLY, USING
MANY DIFFERENT GREEK WORDS, THAT GOD WILL DESTROY THOSE
WHO ARE NOT HIS CHILDREN.
CHAPTER EIGHT
First Resurrection And Second Death
An Immortal Soul or Resurrection of the Dead
The interpretation of figurative language, metaphors and symbolic passages
1. ISRAEL'S DESTRUCTION, her weeping, gnashing of teeth, outer darkness,
Matthew 24
β’ Preterits Eschatology - Realized Eschatology - The A. D. 70 Doctrine
β’ The day of the Lord
β’ 2 Peter 3
2. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS The intermediate bosom
3. THE SYMBOLICAL PICTURES OF REVELATION VERSUS A LITERAL
INTERPRETATION
β’ Souls under the altar
β’ The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever
β’ The Lake of Fire
4. FOREVER AND EVER of the King James Version
5. ETERNAL
Those who believe in the Pagan doctrine of an immortal soul from birth and Hell have
no plain statements. That they must reinterpret figurative language, metaphors and
symbolic passages into literal statements SHOWS THE WEAKNESS OF THEIR
BELIEF, that it is from man and not from God. Parables and figurative language are
made to be superior over plain statements. The clear language must be made to agree
with what is thought to be said in the symbolic language, therefore, MANY LITERAL
PASSAGES MUST BE MADE FIGURATIVE TO KEEP THEM FROM BEING IN
CONFLICT. Many of the metaphors about the destruction of Israel have been discussed
in the first seven chapters. This chapter is a close look at some of the other symbolic
passages that must be made into literal statements.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
PART ONE
SCRIPTURES ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL
328
THAT ARE MISAPPLIED TO HELL
Israel's destruction, her
Free e-book: Β«Immortality or Resurrection (Updated) by William West (ereader with dictionary .txt) πΒ» - read online now on website american library books (americanlibrarybooks.com)
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