Immortality or Resurrection by William West (philippa perry book txt) π
Excerpt from the book:
Is "The Wages Of Sin Death"
Or "Eternal Life With Torment In Hell"
An Immortal Soul and the Doctrine of Hell
Or "Eternal Life With Torment In Hell"
An Immortal Soul and the Doctrine of Hell
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they had proof, I am sure they would use it in bold print. That there will be a second chance after death is opposed to what is taught in the Bible.
[1] THEY MUST PROVE THAT ALL THE LOST ARE NOW ALIVE SOMEPLACE OR WILL BE ALIVE THERE, THAT THERE IS SUCH A PLACE WHATEVER NAME THEY GIVE IT.
[2] THAT THE LOST WILL BE THERE FOR ONLY AN "AGE" OF DISCIPLINARY TRAINING.
[3] AND THAT ALL WILL REPENT AND WILL END UP IN HEAVEN.
They must disprove the "Hell" that many Protestants believe, but at the same time prove there is some kind of a "Hell" that is "age lasting" and not eternal. As is shown in the above quotation Universalist do not believe any will forever be in the lake of fire that is not a literal lake of fire, and they do not believe the Protestant view of Gehenna; therefore, they must prove that God will torment all who do not believe in Christ in this lifetime, some for a short time, some will be tormented more, some tormented much more extremely. G. Jessup said, "We can be sure there will be judgment, punishment, corrections, or whatever kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works, and for some it could be very long and painfully excruciating." I have not seen where they say why there will be a judgment. Maybe for God to decide how much He will have to torment them and how much He will torment Satan and his demons to make them repent. Whatever forms the Universalist says the torment will be, physical, mentally, or whatever, it would still be God doing the tormenting.
UNIVERSALIST MUST PROVE THAT THERE WILL BE AN "AGE" OF ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT. They say there has been many "ages," and will be an "age" after the resurrection in which "judgment, punishment, corrections, or whatever kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works" takes place. They reason that there must be such an age for those who do not come to Christ in this life must have a time to come to Him. All must accept Christ, and most do not in this life. It is a made up "age" which is not found in the Bible. Not one word about it. UNTIL THEY PROVE THERE WILL BE SUCH AN "AGE," THEY ARE ON A MAKE BELIEVE FOUNDATION. THERE IS NO PLACE CALLED HELL IN THE BIBLE, WHETHER IT IS AN AGE LASTING ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT, OR EVERLASTING LIFE WITH TORMENT.
β’ PROTESTANTS CHANGED THE SECOND DEATH INTO ETERNAL LIFE IN HELL FOR ALL THAT NEVER BELIEVED IN GOD.
β’ UNIVERSALIST CHANGED THE SECOND DEATH INTO A PLACE WHERE ALL THAT NEVER BELIEVED IN GOD WILL SOME HOW BE MADE BELIEVERS AND MOVED TO HEAVEN WITH ETERANL LIFE.
β’ BOTH MUST PROVE THE PLATONIC DOCTRINE THAT ALL ARE BORN WITH A PART THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO DEATH. Both the doctrine of Hell and the Universalist doctrine that all will be saved are founded on an assumption that a person has an immaterial, invisible, immortal part in them that cannot die, and this immortal soul must live somewhere.
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT DEATH IS REAL AND NO ONE WILL DIE. Death cannot be the wages of sin for all will have the gift of eternal life; therefore, no sinner can pay the wages of sin if it is death. Universalist point to this passage to prove there is no Hell, but they do not believe it when it says, "the wages of sin is death."
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT THE PENALTY OF SIN IS DEATH. The Protestant does away with death by making death into an eternal life of torment in Hell separated from God; Universalist cannot have death being death or an eternal life separated from God, therefore, they must do away with death. They try to do this by making the end of death be eternal life in Heaven for all that have died. Both turn death into life, but both do it in different ways. Both make the dead that are not dead be living at different places. For both, if "the wages of sin is death," if death is death, it would completely destroy both; therefore, both try to destroy death by making death be life. Universalist take from the Platonic doctrine that when the soul is set free of the body, the soul will in time return to God, death becomes the instrument of salvation for all.
o According to one, the wages of sin is eternal life with torment.
o According to the other, the wages of sin is eternal life without torment even to those who reject Christ.
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT DIE, PERISH, DESTROYED, LOST, AND DEATH ARE NOT USED WITH THEIR TRUE MEANING, and must believe that they are only used in a peculiar or theological sense, therefore, they could not be understood without help from someone who is inspired. BOTH BELIEVE NO ONE WILL EVER DIE. ACCORDING TO BOTH, "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH" TO NO ONE. Just as with innate immoralists, Universalist must redefine many words, life, death, die, dead, destroy, perish, destruction, consumed, kill, end, burned up, and sleep, must ALL be redefined in a way that the world does not use them. See chapter two.
UNIVERSALIST USE OF "ALL"
The way Universalist use βallβ seems to be their main argument. "But what it really says is IN CHRIST...ALL A-L-L ALL shall be made ALIVE! Then each of the ALL in his own order" (from one of their web pages, "CAN THIS BE TRUE?"). They ask questions like: God will have all to be saved [1 Timothy 2:4]; can His will be thwarted? Jesus came to save all [John 12:47]; will He succeed? Jesus is the savior of the world (1 John 4:14); why don't you believe it? And many more like these. Their thinking seems to be that Christ came to save ALL; and if He does not do it in this lifetime, then He must save all who are not saved in this lifetime after the resurrection. This would be great if it was true, but nothing is said about anyone being saved after his or her death. They know that most do not believe in Christ in this lifetime, therefore, they MUST make ALL believe at some time after death. What will happen after death? Christ says "For the hour comes, in which ALL that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of JUDGMENT" [John 5:28-29]. There is nothing said about anyone being saved after death. The lost are raised to judgment, not to eternal life. "NOW is the acceptable time: behold, NOW is the day of salvation" [2 Corinthians 6:2]. God loves ALL, and Christ died for ALL, but ALL will not come to Him. He made a person where he or she could choose to or choose not to. Universalist teaching is that God will show His love to ALL in a way that ALL, even Satan, will love Him. To so overpower the freewill of a person is the same as making them love Him when they could not help it. It would be the same thing as taking their freewill away. This "attitude adjustments" must be strong enough to overpower the most evil; therefore, they are made to believe even against their will. They make up both this "attitude adjustments" and the place where it takes place because they must have them if ALL are to be saved. They are not in the Bible.
UNIVERSALIST TEACHING OF ALL WILL BE SAVED makes much of the Bible be foolishness, vain babbling, meaningless, or just an out right lie. It makes:
1. Satan's greatest lie would be no lie, but is the truth. If all will be saved, no one will die. Satan told the truth; but when God said they would die, He is the one who told the greatest lie [Genesis 3].
2. God said, "The fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars; their part shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone; which IS THE SECOND DEATH" [Revelation 20:8]. Universalist says, "Not so God, all will be saved. None will die the second death, for there cannot be a real second death, all will have eternal life in Heaven."
3. No broad way "that leads to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby" [Matthew 7:13].
4. NO DEATH. Whatever you think death is, whether death is death, or if death is just a separation from God, no one will be dead; no one will be separated from God. Death could not death. The wages of sin could not be death [Romans 6:23]. βThe wages of sin is deathβ must be changed to some "kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works," which will last for an "age"; but the wages of sin cannot be a real death that will be forever. While this attitude adjustment is going on, they must be very much alive, just as alive as they will be when it is over; IF THE WAGES OF SIN IS NOT DEATH, DOES SIN HAVE NO WAGES?
5. βBut he that obeys not the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFEβ [John 3:36] must be changed to, βBut he that obeys not the Son, even he that denies the Son and kills those that obey Him SHALL SEE ETERNAL LIFE.β
6. They use "all made alive" to teach all the lost will be raised with immortality. When they make "all made alive" to be all will be given eternal life at the second coming of Christ, there cannot be a judgment or a second death. All will be saved. No need of a judgment day to judge some good and some bad, it is made to be useless for both those who believe in this lifetime and those who do not believe will be the same, all will be saved. They over look the fact that THE "ALL" PAUL IS SPEAKING OF ARE ALL THE SAVED. ALL saints who are asleep in Christ, and ALL saints who will be living at His coming. Nothing is said in that passage about ALL the ones who are not in Christ; they will be raised to judgment, not life at the resurrection; they are not NOW IN CHRIST, and they never will have the "life" Christ gives to those who obey Him. Their names are not in the book of life. "For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor from life unto life" [2 Corinthians 2:15-16]. Christ will raise them from the dead, but only to be judged and return to the dead "from death unto death"; and there will never be another resurrection.
7. Makes parables of Christ not true. They do not teach anything and, therefore, are useless. THERE WILL BE NO TARES. Christ said, "I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn" [Matthew 13:30]. Christ was wrong. The tares will not be gathered out of the kingdom and burned at the end of the age (aion-age, not world). The tares will not be turned into wheat and gathered into the kingdom, for they will not be burned as Christ said they would be "at the end of the age." NO BAD FISH. All the bad little fishes will be
[1] THEY MUST PROVE THAT ALL THE LOST ARE NOW ALIVE SOMEPLACE OR WILL BE ALIVE THERE, THAT THERE IS SUCH A PLACE WHATEVER NAME THEY GIVE IT.
[2] THAT THE LOST WILL BE THERE FOR ONLY AN "AGE" OF DISCIPLINARY TRAINING.
[3] AND THAT ALL WILL REPENT AND WILL END UP IN HEAVEN.
They must disprove the "Hell" that many Protestants believe, but at the same time prove there is some kind of a "Hell" that is "age lasting" and not eternal. As is shown in the above quotation Universalist do not believe any will forever be in the lake of fire that is not a literal lake of fire, and they do not believe the Protestant view of Gehenna; therefore, they must prove that God will torment all who do not believe in Christ in this lifetime, some for a short time, some will be tormented more, some tormented much more extremely. G. Jessup said, "We can be sure there will be judgment, punishment, corrections, or whatever kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works, and for some it could be very long and painfully excruciating." I have not seen where they say why there will be a judgment. Maybe for God to decide how much He will have to torment them and how much He will torment Satan and his demons to make them repent. Whatever forms the Universalist says the torment will be, physical, mentally, or whatever, it would still be God doing the tormenting.
UNIVERSALIST MUST PROVE THAT THERE WILL BE AN "AGE" OF ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT. They say there has been many "ages," and will be an "age" after the resurrection in which "judgment, punishment, corrections, or whatever kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works" takes place. They reason that there must be such an age for those who do not come to Christ in this life must have a time to come to Him. All must accept Christ, and most do not in this life. It is a made up "age" which is not found in the Bible. Not one word about it. UNTIL THEY PROVE THERE WILL BE SUCH AN "AGE," THEY ARE ON A MAKE BELIEVE FOUNDATION. THERE IS NO PLACE CALLED HELL IN THE BIBLE, WHETHER IT IS AN AGE LASTING ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT, OR EVERLASTING LIFE WITH TORMENT.
β’ PROTESTANTS CHANGED THE SECOND DEATH INTO ETERNAL LIFE IN HELL FOR ALL THAT NEVER BELIEVED IN GOD.
β’ UNIVERSALIST CHANGED THE SECOND DEATH INTO A PLACE WHERE ALL THAT NEVER BELIEVED IN GOD WILL SOME HOW BE MADE BELIEVERS AND MOVED TO HEAVEN WITH ETERANL LIFE.
β’ BOTH MUST PROVE THE PLATONIC DOCTRINE THAT ALL ARE BORN WITH A PART THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO DEATH. Both the doctrine of Hell and the Universalist doctrine that all will be saved are founded on an assumption that a person has an immaterial, invisible, immortal part in them that cannot die, and this immortal soul must live somewhere.
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT DEATH IS REAL AND NO ONE WILL DIE. Death cannot be the wages of sin for all will have the gift of eternal life; therefore, no sinner can pay the wages of sin if it is death. Universalist point to this passage to prove there is no Hell, but they do not believe it when it says, "the wages of sin is death."
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT THE PENALTY OF SIN IS DEATH. The Protestant does away with death by making death into an eternal life of torment in Hell separated from God; Universalist cannot have death being death or an eternal life separated from God, therefore, they must do away with death. They try to do this by making the end of death be eternal life in Heaven for all that have died. Both turn death into life, but both do it in different ways. Both make the dead that are not dead be living at different places. For both, if "the wages of sin is death," if death is death, it would completely destroy both; therefore, both try to destroy death by making death be life. Universalist take from the Platonic doctrine that when the soul is set free of the body, the soul will in time return to God, death becomes the instrument of salvation for all.
o According to one, the wages of sin is eternal life with torment.
o According to the other, the wages of sin is eternal life without torment even to those who reject Christ.
β’ BOTH MUST DENY THAT DIE, PERISH, DESTROYED, LOST, AND DEATH ARE NOT USED WITH THEIR TRUE MEANING, and must believe that they are only used in a peculiar or theological sense, therefore, they could not be understood without help from someone who is inspired. BOTH BELIEVE NO ONE WILL EVER DIE. ACCORDING TO BOTH, "THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH" TO NO ONE. Just as with innate immoralists, Universalist must redefine many words, life, death, die, dead, destroy, perish, destruction, consumed, kill, end, burned up, and sleep, must ALL be redefined in a way that the world does not use them. See chapter two.
UNIVERSALIST USE OF "ALL"
The way Universalist use βallβ seems to be their main argument. "But what it really says is IN CHRIST...ALL A-L-L ALL shall be made ALIVE! Then each of the ALL in his own order" (from one of their web pages, "CAN THIS BE TRUE?"). They ask questions like: God will have all to be saved [1 Timothy 2:4]; can His will be thwarted? Jesus came to save all [John 12:47]; will He succeed? Jesus is the savior of the world (1 John 4:14); why don't you believe it? And many more like these. Their thinking seems to be that Christ came to save ALL; and if He does not do it in this lifetime, then He must save all who are not saved in this lifetime after the resurrection. This would be great if it was true, but nothing is said about anyone being saved after his or her death. They know that most do not believe in Christ in this lifetime, therefore, they MUST make ALL believe at some time after death. What will happen after death? Christ says "For the hour comes, in which ALL that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of JUDGMENT" [John 5:28-29]. There is nothing said about anyone being saved after death. The lost are raised to judgment, not to eternal life. "NOW is the acceptable time: behold, NOW is the day of salvation" [2 Corinthians 6:2]. God loves ALL, and Christ died for ALL, but ALL will not come to Him. He made a person where he or she could choose to or choose not to. Universalist teaching is that God will show His love to ALL in a way that ALL, even Satan, will love Him. To so overpower the freewill of a person is the same as making them love Him when they could not help it. It would be the same thing as taking their freewill away. This "attitude adjustments" must be strong enough to overpower the most evil; therefore, they are made to believe even against their will. They make up both this "attitude adjustments" and the place where it takes place because they must have them if ALL are to be saved. They are not in the Bible.
UNIVERSALIST TEACHING OF ALL WILL BE SAVED makes much of the Bible be foolishness, vain babbling, meaningless, or just an out right lie. It makes:
1. Satan's greatest lie would be no lie, but is the truth. If all will be saved, no one will die. Satan told the truth; but when God said they would die, He is the one who told the greatest lie [Genesis 3].
2. God said, "The fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars; their part shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone; which IS THE SECOND DEATH" [Revelation 20:8]. Universalist says, "Not so God, all will be saved. None will die the second death, for there cannot be a real second death, all will have eternal life in Heaven."
3. No broad way "that leads to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby" [Matthew 7:13].
4. NO DEATH. Whatever you think death is, whether death is death, or if death is just a separation from God, no one will be dead; no one will be separated from God. Death could not death. The wages of sin could not be death [Romans 6:23]. βThe wages of sin is deathβ must be changed to some "kind of 'attitude adjustments' necessary for the unbelievers according to their works," which will last for an "age"; but the wages of sin cannot be a real death that will be forever. While this attitude adjustment is going on, they must be very much alive, just as alive as they will be when it is over; IF THE WAGES OF SIN IS NOT DEATH, DOES SIN HAVE NO WAGES?
5. βBut he that obeys not the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFEβ [John 3:36] must be changed to, βBut he that obeys not the Son, even he that denies the Son and kills those that obey Him SHALL SEE ETERNAL LIFE.β
6. They use "all made alive" to teach all the lost will be raised with immortality. When they make "all made alive" to be all will be given eternal life at the second coming of Christ, there cannot be a judgment or a second death. All will be saved. No need of a judgment day to judge some good and some bad, it is made to be useless for both those who believe in this lifetime and those who do not believe will be the same, all will be saved. They over look the fact that THE "ALL" PAUL IS SPEAKING OF ARE ALL THE SAVED. ALL saints who are asleep in Christ, and ALL saints who will be living at His coming. Nothing is said in that passage about ALL the ones who are not in Christ; they will be raised to judgment, not life at the resurrection; they are not NOW IN CHRIST, and they never will have the "life" Christ gives to those who obey Him. Their names are not in the book of life. "For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor from life unto life" [2 Corinthians 2:15-16]. Christ will raise them from the dead, but only to be judged and return to the dead "from death unto death"; and there will never be another resurrection.
7. Makes parables of Christ not true. They do not teach anything and, therefore, are useless. THERE WILL BE NO TARES. Christ said, "I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn" [Matthew 13:30]. Christ was wrong. The tares will not be gathered out of the kingdom and burned at the end of the age (aion-age, not world). The tares will not be turned into wheat and gathered into the kingdom, for they will not be burned as Christ said they would be "at the end of the age." NO BAD FISH. All the bad little fishes will be
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