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have to do a disproportionate amount of service in their departments.ā€

ā€œAnd Professor Siemens didnā€™t agree?ā€

ā€œIt was more likeā€¦she didnā€™t care. She said that faculty women tend to present themselves as victims of an unfriendly organizationā€¦ā€˜vic-femsā€™ was the term she used. She argued that instead of painting themselves as victims, women needed to exhibit more agency.ā€ Carolyn seemed to think about this briefly, and then said, ā€œNelda was a strong woman, no doubt about itā€¦she had no patience for anyone who came across as weak...in any way. I understand her pointā€¦itā€™s just that she tended to overly individualize womenā€™s experienceā€¦as if there were no commonalities, which, of course there areā€¦thatā€™s the reason for a Faculty Womenā€™s Association, the idea that women faculty are similarly situated and need to build coalitions...with each other and with other groups that tend to be marginalized.ā€

Jillian said, ā€œPost-feminismā€¦she was arguing post-feminism.ā€

Carolyn beamed at Jillian. ā€œExactlyā€¦the idea that the Womenā€™s Movement was successful, the playing field is now equal, and thereā€™s no further need for feminism, thank you very much.ā€ She dusted her hands together to make the point. ā€œNow, itā€™s up to the individual.ā€

The kettle clicked. Carolyn grabbed cups, offered Jillian a small assortment of teas, and said, ā€œItā€™s good to see that you still know your feminist theory, Detective Sergeant Warne. Milk?ā€

Jillian chose an English tea. Carolyn went to the small fridge under her computer table.

ā€œSo, that was Neldaā€™s view. I understand that sort of thinking, but itā€™s just so one dimensional. Yes, of course people have agency, but we also live in groups, and our group identities affect how we think. Itā€™s not either orā€¦itā€™s both andā€¦ Anyway, yes, Nelda is the embodiment of post-feminism. So, no surprise, she is really popular on the conservative lecture circuit. Or so Ian tells meā€¦he actually follows her through Facebook and other social mediaā€¦tracks her lectures.ā€

Jillian nodded. ā€œYes, I spoke with Professor Naremore. Several people weā€™d interviewed said he was one of the faculty who was really opposed to Professor Siemens.ā€

ā€œHe told me that youā€™d talked with himā€¦he came by my office this morning. I think he was a little embarrassed by some of the things he said about Nelda.ā€

ā€œHe did make some pretty strong comments.ā€

ā€œThatā€™s Ianā€¦he tends to pop-off. If it makes any difference, I think he regrets some of his comments. Of course, heā€™s a man so heā€™d never actually say that.ā€ Carolyn shook her head in exasperation.

ā€Do you agree with his views about all this?ā€

ā€œPretty much, yes, I do. Times are tough for universitiesā€¦financiallyā€¦especially at ASU. The legislature continually cuts our fundingā€¦then, they come along and earmark money for some of these conservative programs on campus. Thereā€™s a new one that just startedā€¦I forget its nameā€¦itā€™s one of those long ASU-type namesā€¦most of us just call it ā€˜The Philosophy of Dead White Guysā€™ Department.ā€

Jillian laughed.

ā€œI donā€™t mind that they have such a departmentā€”well actually, of course I mindā€”but what really chaps me is that the legislature funded themā€¦directly. Thatā€™s an ideological thumb on the scales if I ever saw one. And then add the Ayn Rand thing and the Koch Brothers thing, so yes, I mind it a lot. And, I understand why Ian gets so mad. In the same way that the post-feminism claim angers me, the color-blind racism that Nelda espouses is in his face. Theyā€™re similar arguments: weā€™ve dealt with race in America and itā€™s time to move onā€¦you know, except with food or musicā€¦no need for voting laws or anything in the way of affirmative action programsā€¦which is one of Neldaā€™s hot-button items. So, yes, I understandā€¦still, from what Ian told me, some of the things he said crossed a line.ā€

Jillian smiled and nodded. She didnā€™t think it was appropriate to say too much about the interview with Professor Naremore, even to Carolyn. She also wondered if his visit to Carolyn and his mea culpa with her was genuine, or if it was strategicā€¦and designed to deflect attention from what heā€™d said and from how bad it had sounded.

Jillian said, ā€œLet me double-back to Professor Siemens. Do you knowā€¦did she get along with President Davidos?ā€

ā€œPretty well, I think. Once a year, he speaks at the Faculty Womenā€™s meetings, and he and Nelda seemed quite friendly.ā€

ā€œHow is he on womenā€™s issues?ā€

ā€œIā€™d say heā€™s one of the globalist types that you read about in the masculinities literature. You know, if people do their work and do it well, it makes no difference to President Davidos or, to the multinational people like him, whether the person is a man or a woman, white or a person of color. Of course, itā€™s still the case that the people who direct these multinationals are mostly white men, but they are not sexist or racist in the traditional sense. Why do you ask?ā€

Jillian didnā€™t want to reveal too much about their interview with President Davidos, but she did want Carolynā€™s take on a couple of things. ā€œWhen my partner and I interviewed President Davidos earlier today, he said he knew Professor Siemensā€¦and I just wondered about their interactions.ā€

ā€œLike I said, when he spoke at the FWA last spring, they obviously knew one another.ā€ She thought for a second and said, ā€œThey may have sat together. And on second thought, he singled Neldaā€¦at least onceā€¦in a positive way.ā€

Jillian made another mental note, and then said, ā€œI just wondered how he treated women faculty. Maybe it was my imagination, but he seemed to focus on me during the interview. I donā€™t know if he was trying to intimidate meā€¦or whatā€¦but I had the feeling that heā€™d checked-up on me. He knew about my history with Tempe PD, that I was now with Campus Police, even about my time as an ASU student. It just struck me as oddā€¦made me feel uncomfortable.ā€

ā€œHmm. Maybe itā€™s just that the campus community is upset about this murder, and he wants to know the people who are involved in the investigationā€¦and youā€™re one of those people. Or, you know what it could beā€¦youā€™re

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