Immortality or Resurrection by William West (philippa perry book txt) ๐
Excerpt from the book:
Is "The Wages Of Sin Death"
Or "Eternal Life With Torment In Hell"
An Immortal Soul and the Doctrine of Hell
Or "Eternal Life With Torment In Hell"
An Immortal Soul and the Doctrine of Hell
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they are desperately looking for any passage to prove we now have an immaterial, immortal soul in us and take "And to the spirits of the righteous made perfect" out of itโs contexts.
When this is used to prove that after death we have a โsoulโ that is alive and made perfect, it makes the judgment and resurrection be 100% totally useless. The โmade perfectโ in Hebrews 12:23 is something that had happened, not something that will not happen unto after the resurrection.
โข โTo the spirits of just men made perfect [telioo]โ [Hebrews 12:23]
โข โHerein is our love made perfect [telioo]โ [1 John 4:17]
โข โHe that fears is not made perfect [telioo] in loveโ [1 John 4:18]
โข โAnd by works was faith made perfect [telioo]โ [James 2:22]
o Made perfect is not used to mean we have no sins or cannot sin
[8] W. E. VINEโS EIGHT PASSAGE
1 PETER 4:6
โFor unto this end was the gospel preached (past tense) even to the dead (present tense), that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spiritโ The question is (1) who were the dead (2) and when was the gospel preached to them?
Two views of who were the dead were that the Gospel was preached to.
[1] Christians that had died at the time Peter was writing this. They were alive in the flesh at the time the gospel was preached to them and they believed but were dead (asleep in Christ) at the time Peter wrote this. See 1 Corinthians 15:12-28.
[2] Those who โwere dead in your trespasses and sinsโ [Ephesians 2:1] before the gospel was preached to them. The Gospel was preached to them when they were dead through their trespasses and sins (past tense) so that they may live.
1. โAnd you did he make alive, when you were dead through your trespasses and sinsโ [Ephesians 2:1].
1. โHe that hears my word, and believes him that sent me, has eternal life, and has passed out of death into lifeโ [John 5:24].
Nothing is said about any preaching to any one after they were physically dead or to spirits. The Gospel is preached to save; Peter is not saying salvation is being offered to anyone after they are dead.
THE GREAT CONFUSION: Soul or spirit or both?
Two terms that comes from different words
And are not used interchangeable in the Bible
Yet Vine said both are an "immaterial, invisible part of man"
Does a person have an immortal soul or an immortal spirit that is not subject to death and that has eternal life without the resurrection? How many immortal parts does a person have? If two, a soul and a spirit, will both of the immortal parts of a person always exist as two independent and separate beings? If one, which is the immortal part of a person, the soul, or the spirit? Vine says they are different, "Generally speaking the spirit is the higher, the soul the lower element" (Page 589), yet he says both are "the immaterial, invisible part of man" (soul on page 588 and spirit on page 593). He said we have both a higher and a lower " immaterial, invisible part of man."
Those who believe all mankind have an โimmaterial, invisible part of man" do not seem to know whether it is the "soul" or the "spirit" that is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that will live without the earthly body. When preachers preach on the soul being immortal, they use passages that speak of the spirit but say nothing of the soul. There is much confusion on what part of a person is immortal and what will be in Heaven.
MANY USE SOUL AND SPIRIT INTERCHANGEABLY. For their belief, the soul and the spirit must be the same. If they were not, they would be forced to say one or the other is the immortal part of a person, or that a person has two immortal beings inside of them. When I believed in Hell I could not see there being a separate immortal soul and immortal spirit; I used them interchangeably just as most do now without realizing it. When some read the spirit goes back to god, in their mind they see the immortal soul going back to god. Those who believe the soul will take up permanent residence in Heaven at the moment of death, and many who believe the soul is in Abraham's bosom and will not be in Heaven unto the judgment day both use Ecclesiastes 12:7 to prove the soul (the "immaterial, invisible part of man") goes back to God in Heaven at death. How could the spirit (the other "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal part of a person) return unto God at death if it goes to Abraham's bosom or to Hell? I have continually been told for years that lost souls go to Hell at the moment of death. Then how could the soul return to God if it goes to Hell and only the few souls that are saved go to Heaven at the moment of death? How can they not see that they are saying the soul goes to one place and at the same time they are saying the soul goes to another place?
After Christ had been dead for three days and after His resurrection He said, "Touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my father" [John 20:17]. Many say Christ went to an intermediate place where souls go before the resurrection but not to Heaven. If there were such an intermediate place, then the soul or the spirit does not return to God at death. One position is taken on one passage, and then the same persons shifts to another position on another passage and are continually shifting their position.
SOUL OR SPIRIT, WHICH ONE IS IMMORTAL?
Any time 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrews 4:12, etc., comes up in a Bible class, the teacher has the same problem, the same confusion. What is the difference in soul and spirit? Which one is immortal? Many never seem to be quite sure which of the two, the soul, or the spirit they believe to be immortal and not sure if they are the same or two entirely different parts of a person. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 does not say what the functions of the body, soul, or spirit is and what becomes of them at death. It does not say one is mortal and two of them are immortal and will forever live somewhere. This must be read into it.
โข There is nothing about any part of a person now being immortal in it.
โข There is nothing about Hell after the judgment in it. This also must be read into it.
Those who say the "soul" is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal must stop using passages, which speaks of the "spirit" to prove the soul is immortal. "The spirit returns to God" cannot be used to prove the soul is immortal if they are not the same; however, many do use this passage to prove a person has an immortal soul.
Those who say the "spirit" is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal must stop using passages speak of the "soul" to prove the spirit is immortal. "Fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna" cannot be used to prove the spirit is immortal if they are not both the same the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal, but many do use one to prove the other, then will use the other to prove the first. Is this what is called "reasoning in a circle"?
โข They use passages, which have "spirit" in them to prove a person has an immortal soul.
โข Then use passages, which have "soul" in them to prove a person has an immortal spirit.
Body, soul-life, and spirit all are a person as he is now in the image of Adam. All three terms, body, soul, and spirit are used referring to a person at the same time. They are not three parts that can exist without each other. If they were, a person would have two separate immortal beings in Heaven simultaneously. They are not three separate beings with opposite natures, with two living within the other one.
โข BODY: The body the Lord formed from the dust of the ground [Genesis 2:7].
โข SOUL: "The life...is in the blood" Leviticus 17:10-14. The living nature of a person that he has in common with all animals.
โข SPIRIT: The breath of life breathed in the earthy body. All life is from God, and returns to God at death [Ecclesiastes 12:7, Job 34:14-15]. All life is a gift from God to both man and animals, and it goes back to God at death. The spirit is not an immortal part of a person that preexisted as a living being with God before the birth of the person.
Paul does not say may your soul be preserved blameless without your body or spirit. He puts the three together as being inseparable, the whole person, not three separate parts of a person.
Mark 12:30 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your souL (psukee โ life), and with all your mind, and with all your strength.โ
1. With all your heart
2. With all your soul (psukee โ life)
3. With all your mind
4. With all your strength.
What Jesus is saying is that we are to love God with all our being, not some immaterial invisible no substance something that we would have no control over and no way to know whether it loved God or not. I can know I love God with all my heart and with all my mind, but if there were an immaterial invisible no substance being in me that will live after my death, I would have no way to know whether it loved God or not. The psukee is no more a part of a person that lives after the death of the person than the heart, mind or strength are. All four are a person looked at from different points of view, not four parts of a person.
Hebrews 4:12: "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."
1. Dividing of soul and spirit
2. Dividing of both joints and marrow
3. Dividing of the thoughts and intents of the heart
This passage shows that the soul and spirit are different things and can be divided, but there is nothing in it that says the soul, or the spirit is an immortal part of a person that will exist without the person.
Unlike animals, God made man in His image with the potential of living forever. The spirit (ruach - spirit, breath, wind), of both man and animals returns to God, but one of the differences in persons and animals is that animals will not be raised from the dead. They are forever dead, just as a person would be if there were not going to be a resurrection. After death animals will never again have life just as the loss will never again have life after the second death. Death is death for
When this is used to prove that after death we have a โsoulโ that is alive and made perfect, it makes the judgment and resurrection be 100% totally useless. The โmade perfectโ in Hebrews 12:23 is something that had happened, not something that will not happen unto after the resurrection.
โข โTo the spirits of just men made perfect [telioo]โ [Hebrews 12:23]
โข โHerein is our love made perfect [telioo]โ [1 John 4:17]
โข โHe that fears is not made perfect [telioo] in loveโ [1 John 4:18]
โข โAnd by works was faith made perfect [telioo]โ [James 2:22]
o Made perfect is not used to mean we have no sins or cannot sin
[8] W. E. VINEโS EIGHT PASSAGE
1 PETER 4:6
โFor unto this end was the gospel preached (past tense) even to the dead (present tense), that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spiritโ The question is (1) who were the dead (2) and when was the gospel preached to them?
Two views of who were the dead were that the Gospel was preached to.
[1] Christians that had died at the time Peter was writing this. They were alive in the flesh at the time the gospel was preached to them and they believed but were dead (asleep in Christ) at the time Peter wrote this. See 1 Corinthians 15:12-28.
[2] Those who โwere dead in your trespasses and sinsโ [Ephesians 2:1] before the gospel was preached to them. The Gospel was preached to them when they were dead through their trespasses and sins (past tense) so that they may live.
1. โAnd you did he make alive, when you were dead through your trespasses and sinsโ [Ephesians 2:1].
1. โHe that hears my word, and believes him that sent me, has eternal life, and has passed out of death into lifeโ [John 5:24].
Nothing is said about any preaching to any one after they were physically dead or to spirits. The Gospel is preached to save; Peter is not saying salvation is being offered to anyone after they are dead.
THE GREAT CONFUSION: Soul or spirit or both?
Two terms that comes from different words
And are not used interchangeable in the Bible
Yet Vine said both are an "immaterial, invisible part of man"
Does a person have an immortal soul or an immortal spirit that is not subject to death and that has eternal life without the resurrection? How many immortal parts does a person have? If two, a soul and a spirit, will both of the immortal parts of a person always exist as two independent and separate beings? If one, which is the immortal part of a person, the soul, or the spirit? Vine says they are different, "Generally speaking the spirit is the higher, the soul the lower element" (Page 589), yet he says both are "the immaterial, invisible part of man" (soul on page 588 and spirit on page 593). He said we have both a higher and a lower " immaterial, invisible part of man."
Those who believe all mankind have an โimmaterial, invisible part of man" do not seem to know whether it is the "soul" or the "spirit" that is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that will live without the earthly body. When preachers preach on the soul being immortal, they use passages that speak of the spirit but say nothing of the soul. There is much confusion on what part of a person is immortal and what will be in Heaven.
MANY USE SOUL AND SPIRIT INTERCHANGEABLY. For their belief, the soul and the spirit must be the same. If they were not, they would be forced to say one or the other is the immortal part of a person, or that a person has two immortal beings inside of them. When I believed in Hell I could not see there being a separate immortal soul and immortal spirit; I used them interchangeably just as most do now without realizing it. When some read the spirit goes back to god, in their mind they see the immortal soul going back to god. Those who believe the soul will take up permanent residence in Heaven at the moment of death, and many who believe the soul is in Abraham's bosom and will not be in Heaven unto the judgment day both use Ecclesiastes 12:7 to prove the soul (the "immaterial, invisible part of man") goes back to God in Heaven at death. How could the spirit (the other "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal part of a person) return unto God at death if it goes to Abraham's bosom or to Hell? I have continually been told for years that lost souls go to Hell at the moment of death. Then how could the soul return to God if it goes to Hell and only the few souls that are saved go to Heaven at the moment of death? How can they not see that they are saying the soul goes to one place and at the same time they are saying the soul goes to another place?
After Christ had been dead for three days and after His resurrection He said, "Touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my father" [John 20:17]. Many say Christ went to an intermediate place where souls go before the resurrection but not to Heaven. If there were such an intermediate place, then the soul or the spirit does not return to God at death. One position is taken on one passage, and then the same persons shifts to another position on another passage and are continually shifting their position.
SOUL OR SPIRIT, WHICH ONE IS IMMORTAL?
Any time 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrews 4:12, etc., comes up in a Bible class, the teacher has the same problem, the same confusion. What is the difference in soul and spirit? Which one is immortal? Many never seem to be quite sure which of the two, the soul, or the spirit they believe to be immortal and not sure if they are the same or two entirely different parts of a person. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 does not say what the functions of the body, soul, or spirit is and what becomes of them at death. It does not say one is mortal and two of them are immortal and will forever live somewhere. This must be read into it.
โข There is nothing about any part of a person now being immortal in it.
โข There is nothing about Hell after the judgment in it. This also must be read into it.
Those who say the "soul" is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal must stop using passages, which speaks of the "spirit" to prove the soul is immortal. "The spirit returns to God" cannot be used to prove the soul is immortal if they are not the same; however, many do use this passage to prove a person has an immortal soul.
Those who say the "spirit" is the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal must stop using passages speak of the "soul" to prove the spirit is immortal. "Fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna" cannot be used to prove the spirit is immortal if they are not both the same the "immaterial, invisible part of man" that is immortal, but many do use one to prove the other, then will use the other to prove the first. Is this what is called "reasoning in a circle"?
โข They use passages, which have "spirit" in them to prove a person has an immortal soul.
โข Then use passages, which have "soul" in them to prove a person has an immortal spirit.
Body, soul-life, and spirit all are a person as he is now in the image of Adam. All three terms, body, soul, and spirit are used referring to a person at the same time. They are not three parts that can exist without each other. If they were, a person would have two separate immortal beings in Heaven simultaneously. They are not three separate beings with opposite natures, with two living within the other one.
โข BODY: The body the Lord formed from the dust of the ground [Genesis 2:7].
โข SOUL: "The life...is in the blood" Leviticus 17:10-14. The living nature of a person that he has in common with all animals.
โข SPIRIT: The breath of life breathed in the earthy body. All life is from God, and returns to God at death [Ecclesiastes 12:7, Job 34:14-15]. All life is a gift from God to both man and animals, and it goes back to God at death. The spirit is not an immortal part of a person that preexisted as a living being with God before the birth of the person.
Paul does not say may your soul be preserved blameless without your body or spirit. He puts the three together as being inseparable, the whole person, not three separate parts of a person.
Mark 12:30 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your souL (psukee โ life), and with all your mind, and with all your strength.โ
1. With all your heart
2. With all your soul (psukee โ life)
3. With all your mind
4. With all your strength.
What Jesus is saying is that we are to love God with all our being, not some immaterial invisible no substance something that we would have no control over and no way to know whether it loved God or not. I can know I love God with all my heart and with all my mind, but if there were an immaterial invisible no substance being in me that will live after my death, I would have no way to know whether it loved God or not. The psukee is no more a part of a person that lives after the death of the person than the heart, mind or strength are. All four are a person looked at from different points of view, not four parts of a person.
Hebrews 4:12: "For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."
1. Dividing of soul and spirit
2. Dividing of both joints and marrow
3. Dividing of the thoughts and intents of the heart
This passage shows that the soul and spirit are different things and can be divided, but there is nothing in it that says the soul, or the spirit is an immortal part of a person that will exist without the person.
Unlike animals, God made man in His image with the potential of living forever. The spirit (ruach - spirit, breath, wind), of both man and animals returns to God, but one of the differences in persons and animals is that animals will not be raised from the dead. They are forever dead, just as a person would be if there were not going to be a resurrection. After death animals will never again have life just as the loss will never again have life after the second death. Death is death for
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